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New Post 8/27/2007 2:06 PM
  Cedric
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Recording Drums with limited resources 

My band is thinking of bypassing having to pay massive amounts of money for a studio recording, but this obviously has repercussions. I was wondering if it was even worth it to try to record our drum tracks with what we have:

A Condenser/mic set: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/MXL-MXL-990MXL-991-Recording-Microphone-Package?sku=273166

Assorted vocals mics we could use that the other band in our practice space uses.

Triggered bass drum that we can run through a mixer or directly into the computer.

 

 

Thinking of using the 991 mic for overhead recording, as it seems to be built for that. I'm not sure if I can use the big condenser or the vocal mics at all, but I might experiment recording the snare separately with one of them. I realize that's not optimal, but we can't really expect that with what we have. The bass drum sounds great triggered, so that's actually the least of our worries. We're in a small practice space that has pretty decent acoustics and good enough and acoustic absorbers on the walls to create a good ambient sound.

 

Thoughts? Advice? Ridicule? All is welcome.

 
New Post 8/28/2007 10:14 AM
  miroslav
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Re: Recording Drums with limited resources 

Hey...you gotta start somewhere.

Will you get "pro" recordings with that setup and firt time out...I doubt it.
Can you get preety good recordings...yeah, it's possible...but it will take some time, effortand experimentation.

For drums...you can get by with 3 well placed mics...if you have a decent kit and a decent drummer.
I would not use vocal condensors right up against the Snare or Kick. Use a dynamic mic...like a Shure 57 or a Sennheiser e604 (my current choice).

Also...why trigger the bass? Have you tired using the real thing?

If you don't need a true stereo kit...then hang one OH mic right about center, between the Snare and Kick...right over the drummer's Kick knee.
Then put up a dynamic on the Snare, facing AWAY from the HH...and drop another dynamic (something with good low-end response) inside the Kick, about 4" off the head and off axis but facing toward the beater spot.  You can even just lay it down on a pillow.

And then give that a try and see how the mix of the OH and the two spot mics works for you. That's about as basic as you can get witha kit setup.


miroslav
 
New Post 9/3/2007 11:26 PM
  FFPS
4 posts
www.myspace.com/ffpstudios
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Re: Recording Drums with limited resources 
Lucky for you Rip just posted that great kick drum article. Gold: http://www.prorec.com/articles/tabid/109/entryid/267/default.aspx

What got me really thinking was Barry Rudolph's blog from way back, which highlighted the ideal ways to mic each drum. Look-see: http://www.prorec.com/Articles/tabid/109/BlogID/5/Default.aspx

My personal advice would be to track down as many of your muso buddies as possible and beg/borrow/steal as much gear as you can. You should be able to find a decent stock of dynamic mics for the shells and at least one good pair of condensers (matched preferably, but not crucial). And given the amount of home studios people are running, even if you don't have a multiple-input interface, you should be able to loan one from someone (my band hired a 002 Rack with Boringer ADAT for a carton of beer to do our demo).

Alternatively, just go with what you've got, and spend time making it work. You might surprise yourself.
 
New Post 9/4/2007 7:37 AM
  Bill Park
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Re: Recording Drums with limited resources 

Cedric,

 

You don't know what you are doing... fair enough.  Everyone has to start somewhere.  But your stated goals are in conflict with what you say you will do.  Honetsly, your first recordings are very likely to suck.  Is that what you want for your band?  Now, you are going to have to devote a great deal of time effort and some money into learning how to record.  Time you could have spent becoming a better player, working on the songs and arangements.  Or just drinking beer.

Meanwhile, there are already 75 guys on your block with home 'studios'.  Good, bad, or indifferent, they are still already better than you.

 

So if you really want to do a low budget recording, find a low budget guy.  If thre goal is to come out of the other end of the project with a usable CD or demo CD, you'll get there quicker and with fewer headaches by letting someone else do all that work.

 

If your goal had been to have a studio, the answer might have been different.

 

There is also some sort of warped concept that big bands go to big studios just because they have a lot of money, and that anyone can get the same sounds in their basement with ten dollars and a sound card.  That just isn't true.  Big bands have money managers and accountants, who all want to know where the money goes, and are stingier than anyone's wife.  Look at the Stones... Mick is known to be tight with a dollar.  But the Stones have never worked in any label studio, they record in the best studios in the world, finish the product, hand it to the label and tell them to release it.  They spend the bucks to get the sound, because they know how important it is, and how hard it is to get.  If you could do it on the cheap and still achieve that great big room big dollarr gear sound, everyone would be doing it on the cheap.  You can always point to the odd duck who made a great recording on an answering machine in a packing crate, but these are not the norm.  Mostly, I hear a lot of very poor home recordings made by bands who thpught that somehow they might save money by doing it themeselves, and found that there is more to it than they thought.

 

  Bill

 
New Post 9/4/2007 10:04 AM
  miroslav
24 posts
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Re: Recording Drums with limited resources 

Bill is right...

Though I would add that often new bands get to the point where they want to do it themselves  only AFTER they've tried someone's "studio" (or two or three) and the results were all mediocre.

That's just it...there probably ARE at least 75 guys in your area with studios...and you have figrue out which one will really be able to deliver what you want within the budget that you have.

I think that for anyone who just wants to be a great guitar player, and not really think about too many other things...trying to DIY may not be the best choice.
But if you are one of those guys that has a real deep desire to learn how to record well, and to spend a lot more time in the studio environment than just while doing your one CD...then you gotta start somewhere...BUT...it's not an easy or quick learning curve...and you could likely spoend several years honing your skills to a high quality level.

Is that what you want to do...or just "play guitar"...?


miroslav
 
New Post 9/4/2007 11:49 AM
  apl
25 posts
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Re: Recording Drums with limited resources 

Go for it!  They're right, the recordings won't be as good as they might if you had some knowledgable pros working on it, but you'll have fun.  You didn't mention who's going to be listening; if you're just playing for fun and putting the songs on myspace then with some reasonable effort you can create something passable.  OTOH, if you're wanting these sessions to make you money, ie, demos for gigs and radio, then you ought to go the pro route.

Here are some excellent mics for drum overheads, the MSH-1 small diaphragm condensor.  There are some audio clips on the page, too.

http://www.naiant.com/studiostore/microphones.html

Also consider these as a workable substitute for the SM-57:

http://www.speakerrepair.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=37-206&Category_Code=microphones

 
New Post 9/6/2007 10:57 AM
  hogiewan
12 posts
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Re: Recording Drums with limited resources 

Take that mic pair and run it as a mid-side pair (google it for details) 5-6 feet in front of the kit and high.  That will get your main "kit sound" and allow you to have some stereo spacing.

Use a couple dynamic mics on the kick and the snare (pointed away from the HH).  EQ the snot out of the kick and snare mics so that they add to the "kit sound" on the stereo pair and bolster the sound of the two main components in the kit.  Don't try to make them sound great on their own.  You may want to try micing the snare from the bottom to get more of the snare buzz in there.

Make sure you record in a decent room, because that will make as much difference as the sound of the actual instruments.

 
New Post 9/7/2007 4:16 PM
  miroslav
24 posts
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Re: Recording Drums with limited resources 

Yeah...that's kinda' what I posted previously in thisthread...with only one exception...I don't place the M/S out in front of the kick...but rather right over the kit so that the M/S pair are about where ther drummer's kick knee is, and centered between the Kick and Snare equally.

Having the M/S out in front...you don't get the Toms, HH as well...and you end up with a real big cymbals, as the cymbal sound comes off the edge of a cymbal.
With the pair out in front and high...the edge of the cynbal is pretty much aimed right at the M/S pair while the Toms are facing down and back away from the M/S pair...and the HH is rather buried.

Over the kit....the M/S really picks up the Toms and Hat...and the Snare and Kick...but the cymbals become nicley "tamed" as their projection edges are not facing the M/S pair...and the sound you get from them comes off their tops, which is a lot mellower and will blend prefectly with the rest of the kit.

I'm not saying you can't have them out front...but I just get better results having the mics "inside" the Kit circle rather than outside....


miroslav
 
New Post 9/7/2007 9:02 PM
  hogiewan
12 posts
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Re: Recording Drums with limited resources 

good points

 
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